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Looking Beyond Ivy League Hype

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Does your child need to attend an Ivy League college or other elite university to end up getting great jobs with great salaries? The answer is

No.

No!

Noooo!

NOOOO!

Got It?

At the risk of being obnoxious, I repeated my answer because the parents, who are most likely to obsess about Ivy League colleges or other elite universities, are the ones who havent gotten the message or are resistant to it.

After crossing paths with thousands of parents over the years through my blog, presentations and my online course, I ultimately concluded that its the high-income, educated (often with advanced degrees) parents, who believe that a degree from a place like Stanford, Harvard or Duke is the best (and perhaps the only) way to ensure financial success for life.

What I find especially ironic is that these parents believe the Ivy League hype even though the vast majority of them didnt attend these elite schools and they did just fine.

What these moms and dads dont understand is that children from affluent households will typically earn higher lifetime salaries regardless of where they attend college. They don’t need a golden ticket from Harvard because they were born into golden-ticket households.

But hey, dont believe me. Believe the respected researchers who have closely examined this issue.

A couple of landmark studies demonstrated this reality quite a few years ago and brand new research has produced some of the same conclusions, but with one fascinating twist.

Outcomes: Ivy League Degrees vs. Non-Ivy Degrees

Here are three main conclusions from the original studies, which were published in 2002 and 2011:

No. 1:

Students who graduated from Ivy League schools and those who were accepted into Ivies, but attended other institutions, ultimately made the same salaries over their careers.

No. 2:

Students who graduated from Ivies, as well as students who were rejected from the Ivies, but shared the same high academic profiles, also were making the same salaries in their careers.

Folks, its not the Ivies that make the difference.

To drive home this point to a ridiculous degree, I have told people that bright, rich students could have spent their college years in a closet and they likely would still have become successful.

No. 3:

An Ivy League degree did result in higher salaries for students who were minorities, low-income and the children of parents without college degrees. This makes sense since these children dont enjoy the benefits that wealthy children have.

Despite the documented benefit of an elite degree for students of modest means, the prestigious schools primarily fill their freshmen ranks with overachievers from rich and ultra-rich households. (This is the kind of stuff that has made me cynical – actually disgusted – about higher-ed behavior, but thats a subject for another day.)

Dive Deeper in Ivy League Research

Here is a blog post that I wrote back in 2011 about these two highly cited studies, as well as a New York Times article about this research:

A Follow-Up Study on Ivy League Educations

I ran across a study, which was published last month, that prompted me to revisit this issue. The aim of the authors from Virginia Tech, Tulane and University of Virginia was to determine if the findings of the original Ivy League studies were holding up.

New Ivy League Study Findings

Here are three things that the academics found:

No. 1:

Just like the original studies, white, high-income white men with the same academic profiles did not enjoy any salary boost for attending an elite university.

No. 2:

Low-income and minority students, along with those without college-educated parents, did enjoy a significant salary boost.

No. 3:

Here is the different twist: the overall income that women graduates from Ivy League schools earned was 14% higher than their non-Ivy League peers. That is certainly significant, but theres a hitch.

The Ivy grads did not make more per hour in their jobs than their equally bright female peers.

Instead, these female Ivy grads earned more income overall because they stayed in the workforce longer. These women were more likely to delay marriage, to delay having children and stay working longer. The researchers also discovered that these women, who are more career focused, had a four percent lower chance of getting married.

Last month The Atlantic did a great job of summarizing all the research in this article:

Does It Matter Where You Go to College?

Bottom Line:

I think its critically important for affluent parents (and their children) to stop fixating on these elite research universities.

Attending these colleges perversely requires near perfection from admission offices. Teenagers must sacrifice their high school years in an attempt to achieve that perfection which can lead to abject misery, mental health and physical disorders and alienation from parents.

Here is an insightful and important post about the toxicity of the elite admission race that a guest contributor – Matt Steiner from Compass Education – wrote several years ago.

Why Affluent Teens Are Miserable

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The post Looking Beyond Ivy League Hype appeared first on The College Solution.

By: Lynn O’Shaughnessy
Title: Looking Beyond Ivy League Hype
Sourced From: www.thecollegesolution.com/looking-beyond-ivy-league-hype/
Published Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:53:15 +0000

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Why Would A College Say It Has Openings While I’m Stuck on the Waitlist?

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I am a high school senior who has always wanted to go to Rutgers, but they wait-listed me so I committed to Penn State. Today my mom sent me the NACAC list of schools with college openings and Rutgers New Brunswick is on the list. If they are saying they have openings, how can they still keep me on the waitlist? Should I contact them? Should I reapply? Is this list even genuine?


Yep, “The Dean” saw the listing, too, and it does appear that Rutgers has freshman vacancies on three campuses, including the main campus in New Brunswick. There is even financial aid and housing available. This annual NACAC roundup of colleges with openings is totally legit and a good way for students who don’t yet have college choices (or the choices they want) to consider new options.

It may seem a bit odd that you’re moldering on a waitlist and eager to enroll while the university is beating the bushes for additional applicants, although it’s possible that certain academic fields are already full, including the one that you selected. So to confirm this conjecture, I contacted the Rutgers admission office via their handy Live Chat to ask the same question that you did, and I got a speedy reply from Admissions Officer Zachory Huxford. He told me:

“There are a lot of factors that go into coming off of a waitlist, and available seats in a given school is one of them. The waitlist is reviewed on a rolling basis as seats become open in those schools.”

You should email your admission officer at Rutgers, explain that you saw on the NACAC list showing that Rutgers still has freshman vacancies, and proclaim your intention to enroll immediately if accepted off the waitlist. But, because admission officials are all swamped these days, I suggest that you copy your message to quest[email protected] as well so that it gets the fastest-possible review.

In addition, if you have an alternate choice of “school” within Rutgers besides the one you applied to, you can mention it in your message and formally add it to your application. (Be sure to include an explanation of why this second-fiddle school is of interest to you so that it doesn’t look like you will try to transfer out of it as soon as your duffel bags are unpacked in your dorm room!)

Finally, regardless of what happens with Rutgers, congratulate yourself on already having a very enviable spot at Penn State. This crazy admission process so often ends in a “Meant to Be” way, even if it doesn’t seem like it at first.

About the Ask the Dean Column

Sally Rubenstone is a veteran of the college admissions process and is the co-author of three books covering admissions. She worked as a Smith College admission counselor for 15 years and has also served as an independent college counselor, in addition to working as a senior advisor at College Confidential since 2002. If you’d like to submit a question to The Dean, please email us at [email protected]

By: Sally Rubenstone
Title: Why Would A College Say It Has Openings While I’m Stuck on the Waitlist?
Sourced From: insights.collegeconfidential.com/college-openings-list-nacac
Published Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 11:23:29 +0000

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The Significance of Graduation

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Our local paper arrived this morning amid mid-40-degree temperatures, dark skies and a cold drizzle. Just another dreary lockdown day here in Pennsylvania. I was hoping for some good news as I scanned the front-page headlines. No such luck.

These disappointing words spelled out a nearby high school’s plight: “AASD seniors to have virtual ceremony.” Altoona Area School District has decided that seniors from Altoona Area High School will graduate online this year. While Blair County, in which AAHS is located, remains on lockdown, according to Governor Tom Wolf’s guidelines, school board members had to make a decision about graduation since time is growing short and COVID-19 restrictions remain in place.


The process for this virtual graduation is interesting, if not challenging. According to the Altoona Mirror‘s report:

“… The COVID-19 pandemic has forced the cancellation of this year’s traditional June 5 ceremony at Mansion Park.

At Monday’s Committee of the Whole meeting, high school Principal Andrew Neely told the board that [521] graduates will do a “Senior Spotlight,” in which seniors, dressed in caps and gowns, will be brought to the school where they individually will walk in front of a video camera, state their name and turn their tassel.

Starting today, seniors will be scheduled to come to the school to pick up their caps and gowns. Neely said the process will follow social distancing guidelines.

“Seniors will be given a date and time to come in for their caps and gowns. Those will be in 20-minute increments,” he said. “They are all going to be required to wear face masks.”

Neely said the senior spotlights will be recorded on May 18 in hour slots, with 25 students per slot. The event will not be broadcast live but will be recorded and edited together with music by the school’s broadcasting teacher Doug Sipes and posted for viewing on June 5.

“It won’t be live, but it will be broadcast on the actual day of what would have been commencement, June 5,” he said. “At that point, Mrs. (Sharon) Bream can declare them graduated as board president.”

I was tempted to call the school to clarify whether or not seniors would be required to wear their masks as they’re recorded turning their tassels, but this is the best Altoona officials can do for the Class of 2020 currently, although there is some hope for a better ceremony:

Neely said if social distancing requirements are relaxed later in the summer, a live commencement will be held 10 a.m. July 25 at the Jaffa Shrine [an indoor venue].

“It’s hard to say what is going to be allowed and what is not going to be allowed,” he said.

If a live commencement is held on July 25, a senior only dance will be held in the Jaffa banquet hall on the same evening.

The Class of 2020 Misses out on Milestones

I empathize with this year’s high school and college seniors. Graduations are very special events that give a firm note of finality to eras of academic life. This got me to wondering about the emotions of others in the Class of 2020. How do they feel about their virus-derailed graduations?

National Public Radio’s Elissa Nadworny investigated this issue from the college perspective in No Caps, No Gowns: For Many In The Class Of 2020, Commencement Is Called Off. News of the changes dictated by the COVID-19 did not land lightly for UVA senior Nathan Stewart when “an email landed in their inboxes: Classes were moving online and graduation was indefinitely postponed.”

“Honestly, my friends and I just immediately started crying,” says Stewart. Throughout his four years at UVA, graduation had been a major motivator. When he and his friends were having tough days, they’d tell each other, “Just wait till graduation day. We’re all walking across the stage together and we’ll get our diplomas. It’ll be so worth it then.”

This is what I meant when I referred to graduation as a note of finality. It’s a capstone of sorts that puts an exclamation mark on all the good and not-so-good times accumulated over the course of a college (or high school) education. Of course, the students aren’t alone in their respective dilemmas. Administrators, like AASD’s mentioned above, are also in a difficult position.

“… Administrators and college presidents are scrambling to figure out what to do about graduation this year. How can they acknowledge students’ hard work and success, while still maintaining social distancing amid the outbreak of coronavirus?

Many colleges across the country have outright cancelled graduations, others, such as Harvard and Miami University in Ohio, have scheduled virtual ceremonies. Some students have taken things into their own hands and created their own ceremonies — on a reconstructed campus — through Minecraft.”

Parents Suffer as Well

Parents obviously have a significant emotional and financial investment in their children’s higher education. One California State University, Los Angeles senior spoke of her parents’ anticipation and disappointment over canceled graduation.

“When they cancelled graduation, it was exactly 60 days prior to our scheduled commencement,” she explains. She knows that because her mother and father kept track, counting down the days, crossing each one off on their calendar. When she told them it was off, her mom cried. “My parents didn’t get to finish high school,” she says, “so for them, seeing their daughter graduating college was just beyond their dreams.”

Opinions vary. In my discussions with seniors and parents within my network, I’ve been surprised by some pragmatic attitudes about canceled or deferred ceremonies. One local family I spoke with was almost relieved that they didn’t have to make the cross-country journey for graduation.

Due to the family’s recent economic circumstances and medical issues, the costs involved for them to attend an on-campus graduation would have been well beyond their budget, although they were willing to make the sacrifice had a traditional graduation been scheduled. The senior-student son was happy that his parents didn’t have to somehow find the finances to make the long journey. He told me that his main concern right now is finding work so that he might be able to help his parents through a difficult time.

This practical attitude is also reflected by one of the students mentioned in Nadworny’s article.

“It’s just a ceremony,” says Alexandrea Mares, who lives with her grandparents and attends California State University, Northridge. Right now, she says she’s far more concerned with keeping herself and her family healthy. “You know what? My health and their health is what matters most,” she says. “At the end of the day, it’s the degree that you get and I’m gonna get the degree either way at the end of the semester.”

That’s not to say she isn’t extremely proud of her six-year journey: “Even though we’re not having a graduation, I’m still excited to get my diploma in the mail and hang it up on the wall.”

I received my college diploma in the mail, too, choosing not to attend my college graduation. There was no pandemic back then, but my family’s circumstances dictated that more important priorities ruled. I didn’t regret my decision. Frankly, I would have also chosen not to attend my high school graduation, but I did. I’ve been a “social-distancer,” one way or the other, most of my life, I guess.

There’s an important lesson to be learned from this year’s graduation dislocations, in my view. The lesson is: Real life is not a straight line. Be flexible. Aside from the wisdom and maturity this extraordinary time bestows, it also creates a great cache of stories that today’s seniors can pass on to their grandchildren when they ask, “What did you do during the Great Pandemic?” Now that’s significant.

By: Dave Berry
Title: The Significance of Graduation
Sourced From: insights.collegeconfidential.com/cancelled-graduations-class-of-2020
Published Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 15:58:40 +0000

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How My Marijuana Arrest Impacted My Admissions Journey

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I am someone who always knew I wanted to go away to college, even from a young age. I liked the idea of leaving home, living in a dorm and even eating in the cafeteria. With three older siblings who went to college before me, I saw firsthand the independence they had when they left home, and how happy they seemed on campus. Even when they came home to visit, they were different in a good way. I liked everything about their new outlook after they headed to college, and I definitely expected I would follow in their footsteps.


So I was really excited when I got accepted to my dream school in Chicago, far from my home in North Carolina, but one that was my first choice for a lot of reasons. It had my major, the classes were the right size, I liked that they had a great basketball following and I felt really at home when I visited the campus. I also got some merit scholarships there because I had always been a straight A student and I had a 33 ACT score.

I headed to Chicago in the fall of 2016 and moved into the dorm with a roommate who I’d met on the online admitted students group. He and I got along really well right from the beginning, and our schedules were similar as well (important!) so we got up and went to bed around the same time every day. I liked my classes and my grades were good. Basically, everything was going really well.

When I got back to campus after winter break my freshman year, I went to a small party in someone’s dorm room on campus. There were some kids drinking beer there and some other people smoking pot. I was one of the kids smoking weed near the window of the room. About an hour after the party started, the RA knocked on the door, and we were all busted. Long story short, I had a first infraction on my record, and the school was taking it pretty seriously. I didn’t get kicked out, but I knew I’d have to stay in line with all of the school’s policies if I wanted to stay there (and I did want to stay!)

Continuing My Bad Decisions

Fast forward to a few months later, when I was headed to an off-campus party with some friends at the end of the spring semester. It was a BYOB party and since it was off campus, we didn’t think much of the fact that we picked up some beer and pot on the way there, which we shared with people at the off-campus party. The problem was that when we returned to campus a few hours later, my friend was still holding a cooler that had some beer in it and I still had some weed in my pocket. Just before we walked into my dorm, a security guard came over and asked my friend what was in the cooler. I was asked if I had anything on me and just came clean with the bag of pot in my pocket. I didn’t want to say “nothing” and then get caught during a search.

The amount of pot I was caught with this second time was such that the school thought police should be involved, and at that point, the court became involved as well. Since I was pretty much done with freshman year at that point, I didn’t lose any credits, but I was asked not to return to the university at that point. In other words, I was kicked out. Considering that I had gotten straight A grades while I was there, it was incredibly stupid that I had to leave due to something that was completely in my control, and obviously I have a ton of regrets.

Moving Home

I went back to North Carolina incredibly embarrassed about what happened. My parents weren’t happy and neither was I. I had no one to blame but myself for these stupid issues but I was mad at the world in some ways. My parents reminded me that sending me to my dream school created sacrifices for the whole family, and that I blew it. For the first month or so, I dealt with the legal aspects of my court case back in Illinois (which was much more involved than you’d expect). Without getting into too much detail, I had to spend the next year doing a series of things on a list to get the charges off my record, while also working full time at a local oil change place. I paid many big fines and fees (in the thousands) which essentially wiped out the amount of money I made working during my year at home. Eventually my record was clean and I could go back to college, but this time there were conditions.

My parents wanted me to stay in state, which I understood. Not only would it save them money, but they didn’t want me too far away for other reasons also. However, just because my record was clean didn’t mean I could keep the charges a secret when I applied to college the second time around. My previous college record said why I had to leave the school, and some of the colleges where I was applying to transfer asked if I’d ever been “arrested” — not if I had a record. So with the help of a local college admissions counselor, I wrote a letter explaining what happened, what I learned from it and how I spent my year away from college. I was sincere when I said I did a lot of stupid things during my first stint at college and I don’t want to repeat them (because it’s true).

I was accepted at four of the seven schools where I applied, but I have decided to go to UNC Greensboro as a transfer student because I liked the size and feel of the campus, as well as the opportunities in my major. I am very grateful that this school put the trust in me and believes that I can do better this time around, and I firmly believe I will.

If I have any advice for upcoming college students, it would be to take college more seriously than I did. I’m someone who worked incredibly hard on my grades and then messed up with something so stupid that I still can’t believe it happened. If you think something like this can’t happen to you, maybe you’re right. But if you’re not, it’s a really big price to pay.

About the writer: Alex Taylor is not the writer’s real name, but is a pseudonym he chose to protect his identity. He plans to attend the University of North Carolina at Greensboro this fall as a transfer student.

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If you’d like to share details of your admissions journey on College Confidential, please email us at [email protected]

By: Alex Taylor
Title: How My Marijuana Arrest Impacted My Admissions Journey
Sourced From: insights.collegeconfidential.com/how-my-marijuana-arrest-impacted-my-admissions-journey
Published Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 15:31:51 +0000

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